The Year of Moving Forward

The Year of Moving Forward
At our 4 person wedding reception in DC

Sunday, June 21, 2009

Health Care Poll

In this morning's New York Times are the results of a CBS/NYT poll about Health Care.

Would you favor or oppose the government's offering everyone a government administered health insurance plan like Medicare that would compete with private health insurance plans?

Favor - 72%, Oppose - 20%.

I favor. Health care is a right not a privilege.

Would you be willing or not willing to pay higher taxes so that all Americans have health insurance that they can't lose no matter what?

Willing - 57%, Not willing - 37%.

I am willing to help those less fortunate than I by paying a bit more in taxes.

Which is a more serious problem right now: keeping health care costs down or providing health insurance for Americans who do not have any?

Keeping costs down - 26%, Providing for uninsured - 65%.
Among Republicans: Keeping costs down 52%, Providing for uninsured - 44%.
Among Democrats: Keeping costs down 15%, Providing for uninsured - 78%.

I believe providing for the uninsured is more serious. It looks like Republicans are more concerned with keeping a buck or two in their pocket than in helping those less fortunate. Predictable. Shameful.


Drew said...

This republican is not ashamed for wanting to provide for my family before another persons family! Maybe it is predictable, however the government should not force it's citizens to be charitable. It should be, as it always has been an option to do so or not!

Politics Alabama said...

Yes, I wrote a piece on that today, too. There are two problems with relying too heavily on this poll. First, the respondents self-identified twice as many Obama voters as McCain voters. Is it any wonder Obama supporters support Obama? Second, the results were contradictory. For example, the majority said that the national healthcare needed overhauling, while an even larger majority said their own healthcare plan was just fine.

Joe said...

I don't see the problems. First, if you read the protocol for the poll, their methods result in true randomness, so who cares who they supported. Second, there is no contradiction in thinking the system needs an overhaul while being satisfied with your own healthcare. That just indicates you are concerned for others despite your own good fortune.

Joe said...

Do you consider your contributions to medicare charitable? Or using tax money to provide for child (CHIP) coverage?

Politics Alabama said...

Joe, if you sample mostly from a group that will respond in a predictable way, you will get skewed results. The percentage of Obama voters in the poll far outnumbered the percentage of Obama voters in reality, and so the results are skewed.

And if a large majority thinks their own healthcare is fine, then it follows that the majority of the healthcare system is fine. Otherwise, fewer people would say it was.

So, we should scrap a healthcare system that the vast majority find acceptable because individuals have a misconception?

No, I don't think so.

Joe said...

They did not "sample from a group that will respond in a predictable way." That would require the question "how will you respond..." No, they chose randomly from 69000 land line exchanges. Within the chosen exchanges random digits were added to produce a phone number, permitting access to both listed and unlisted. Then within each number one adult was designated to respond. To increase coverage, random cell phone numbers were dialed as well. Within 3 per cent the results are as they would be had they interviewed every American. It is a measure of how they feel today, not a measure of how they voted.
As for your other point: I believe my healthcare plan is fine. My partner believes his is as well. However, we both think the system should be revamped. We do not think only of ourselves.

its no different than my belief that even though both of my children got a quality public education, I still believe that public education system could be improved in many ways to make it more equitable so that all kids in all systems get a quality education.

SteveO said...

I think that the right to healthcare is a component of the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of hapiness.

Politics Alabama said...

Joe said: "I believe my healthcare plan is fine. My partner believes his is as well. However, we both think the system should be revamped. We do not think only of ourselves."

But if the vast majority of people have healthcare that they are satisfied with, how can the system as a whole be broken, regardless of individual conception of it?

SteveO said: "I think that the right to healthcare is a component of the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of hapiness."

I disagree, and here's why. Life, liberty, and happiness are all things I have the ability to get for myself. Nobody gives them to me. In order to believe health care is a right, you have to believe that you have a right to a portion of another person's life. To whit, medicines, supplies, and physician time all cost money... if you have a right to them, you have a right to take money out of the pocket of another.

And regardless of how our welfare society is evolving, you don't.

Drew said...

Yes! I am forced to pay for medicare. If I understand the "proposed changes in the healthcare system"......even the citizens who pay no taxes and are in no way contributing would have access to healthcare? Is that correct? I don't nor will I ever agree with providing for able bodied persons to have healthcare. If a person is disabled or retirement age....yes they need healthcare and I don't mind helping them. But how do you distinguish between people that "live off the government" and those who can't do for themselves? And don't get me started on the immigration issue, are we giving them healthcare also? To say that Republicans just want to keep money in thier pockets rather than help those less fortunate is a predictable and shameful statement............"~) And that my friend is my Bessemer Opinion!

Joe said...

Drew and Pol, I am glad that over 70 percent of Americans disagree with you. The uninsured, many of which could not find a job now if they wanted one, only drive up the cost of health care for the rest of us, both by neglecting to get care, then using emergency services.

Politics Alabama said...

You know the old saying, right? Be careful what you wish for... you may get it.

Consequences will be dire. The actual plan being considered will not simply add insurance for the uninsured, it will force those of us with good insurance to change too, and for the worst.

And, in spite of all that, will STILL leave 37 million uninsured... according to the CBO.

So I'm just not sure what the advantages are to proceeding with PresBo's plan.

Drew said...

Why can't they find a job? 20 million undocumented workers is why...........

Dan said...

We are headed for trouble if we allow our Government to take control of our health care system. Health Care is NOT a "right". I work hard for my money AND to pay for my health care. Right now, we have so many people in this country wanting hand outs and we have a president who ran on the concept of "spreading the wealth around." I REFUSE to PAY for healthcare for someone who doesn't take car of themself. Someone who over eats and doesn't exercise. Why on earth should one PENNY of my money go to help them?

This is America. A GOD-FEARING nation that was founded on the principles of "you are free to do and to be anything you want to be, but you will have to work to do it" NOT on the principle of "if you live here, don't work, don't take care of your self, and want a free ride - you got it. Those who DO work won't mind paying a few extra dollars in taxes so that we can take care of you."

Think about it Joe. Take your Democratic hat off for just one minute and look at this rationally. There is NO WAY you would want to help pay for someone else's health issues.

Shia said...

Just a note: People tend to say they voted for whoever the winner is, even if they might not have. It is not clear whether this is because those on the fence don't correctly remember, whether people are lying, etc... but it has been shown.
I do think the fact that a majority are content enough with what they have is a barrier. Once the reforem becomes more real and the details become apparant to everyone, people fear change.

wayne said...

The most serious problem we have now is keeping costs down on everything. Gov't spending is completely out of control, then we find out MILLIONS in stimulus money went to RIDICULOUS causes. Is the Govt would stop the spending, and Americans would stop holding their hands out for freebies, we could get this economy back up and running within a one year period.

But there are too many deals going on behind the scenes, and those low-life people who want something for nothing will never stop 'expecting' our govt to help them.

Joe said...

"I REFUSE to pay for healthcare for someone who doesn't take care of themself. Someone who overeats and doesn't exercise. Why on earth should one penny of my money go to help them?"

Learn about our health care system, Dan. You are already paying for them. Free care is not free. You and I pay through increased fees and premiums. As for your question, I was raised a Christian abd taught to treat paople as Jesus would. He preached an awful lot about helping the poor and disadvantaged.
"There is NO WAY you should want to help pay for someone elses health care."
I refer you back to Jesus, and to the poll, which said people would not mind...57 percent to be exact. And I have helped pay for the health care for others, by the way.

For all of you, its coming. Open your heart a little. And yes, it is a right. Just like clean water and clean air is a right.

rev. bill said...

Joe, you cannot possibly compare this to anything Jesus would do. jesus was speaking to people on an individual basis. What we are talking about here is GOVERNMENT FORCED (by taxing us more and more) healthcare. Right now I have a choice. I can choose different health care providers. I can choose my own doctor. This idea of gov't controlled health care is simply not a good one. It could be disastrous if it does not work. while you are talking about rights, what this will do will be to take our rights (choices) AWAY. Just watch. It won't be pretty. But please don't even begin to compare what our Gov't does with what Jesus would do. There is no comparison.

Politics Alabama said...

Joe said: "I was raised a Christian abd taught to treat paople as Jesus would. He preached an awful lot about helping the poor and disadvantaged."

And that's a fine thing, Joe. Do all the good works you wish to. But did Christ advocate forcing others to do the good works that you think they should? Let our healthcare alone, stop making us pay for other people to live. You have no idea what other charitable works we do... though by the evidence Americans are the most charitable people on earth. I, for one, do not choose to "be charitable" by giving vast amounts of money to government and trusting they'll do good with it.

You want to do good with money? Listen up. When I was young, my father "adopted" a poor family. We helped them when needed it throughout the year, when they had exceptional expenses they couldn't meet, and we helped them have a Merry Christmas by buying presents, tree, and decorations. THAT is helping the poor. Giving money to government and trusting is helping government.

There is a difference.

Joe said...

Rev. Bill,
I just love the way you right wing "Christians" want the government to do your bidding, such as controlling the health care of women and passing restrictions on gay relationships based on your biblical interpretations, yet when a Christian democrat wants to provide for those less fortunate, it's "forcing."

Politics, Thanks for pointing out my spelling errors. I did that on Crackberry and mistakes are hard to pick up and correct.

But I assume you are against medicare also. since medicare is funded by our contributions. OK, let the old people suffer and die like they did before medicare.

BTW, my clinic collected money from employees each year to provide for needy families in the way youd escribe. Now we do the same through our christmas party. but we can't treat their cancer or their diabetes that way. when Johnny is laid off from work, and has lost his health insurance, and has a wreck on the way to a job interview, or his kid falls off the swing and breaks a leg, just let them lie there. We can't let the government health care program assist these guys.

"Me, me, me." You all sing that song so well.

Staci said...

Christian democrat????
-who the heck were you referring to?

Joe said...

Yes, Obama. He seems to be more of a Christian than those who post comments here.

Javi said...

In reference to what Drew said about the 20 million undocumented workers being the problem: I am sure people are beating down the doors of orchard and farm owners to pick strawberries, peaches and apples. They are also applying for the housekeeping jobs that pay next to nothing, the landscaping work that often results in injuries but that still pay next to nothing, or the cushy construction worker jobs that pay next to nothing. Wake up. The jobs those undocumented workers are doing, none of us bourgeoisie Americans want to do anyway.