The Year of Moving Forward

The Year of Moving Forward
At our 4 person wedding reception in DC

Friday, December 12, 2008

Newsweek Makes the Case

Well, finally a mainstream publication gets it right on same sex marriage and the Bible and has the ba…, gumption to print it. Newsweek article.

Newsweek created a firestorm however. I heard about this the other day on local AM talk radio. I am sure the hosts (Dominick Brascia and friends) had not read the article, they just automatically condemned the magazine, the author and anyone else associated with it.

Anyway, please do not comment on this unless you read the article.

Also on Newsweek is their Readback, where the response to the article is presented.

The main argument presented against the article and against same sex marriage is that it is wrong is wrong. Nothing factual, nothing to refute the argument that the author makes. In fact, like Dominick, I suspect the comments were made by people who had not even read the article. I know people like this, I wrote a long letter once to a dear friend explaining my beliefs about sexuality and the Bible, and she wrote back that she began reading the letter but stopped after realizing the position I was taking (before she actually read what I was really saying).

American hearts are being changed since the passage of California’s Prop 8. I’m almost glad it passed, now, because it brought the debate into the streets and into the living rooms across the country. More people are learning about the hardship gay couples have in hospital visitation, estate matters, child rearing and more.

Now we have an article in one of the three major news magazines. The passage of Prop 8 sped up the recognition of same sex marriage in America, no doubt.

There still will be a fight, but it just got easier.


Anonymous said...

Good post John. I agree. While i do not agree with abuse or criminal acts against anyone regardless of what lifestyle they lead, I do believe that marriage is an institution designed specifically for male and female. I agree with you that it is not normal for people of the same sex to want to have sex, and there is obviously something that has caused them to want to make that choice. I know two people personally who were in a 5-year relationship and had to get out and go to counseling b/c they both (both men) knew that what they were doing was not 'normal'. It is sad that mainstream media wants to make it seem okay. It's not.

Anonymous said...

Joe ,I can't agree with the other two folks above me. I have seen to many young people who don't know what they are and can see the difference in them. Not to say there is anything wrong with them, because I truly believe that is way you are born. God would not punish anyone who has a true heart and the religious folks who think it is all bad don't really belive in the word of the bible. If they did they would love all no matter who or what they were.

Joe said...

Did yall even read the article?

Wearing eyeglasses is not normal. Being obese is not normal. Is a male having offspring normal? Well what about the seahorse, where the male incubates the eggs and gives birth. I raised seahorses as a child, and I saw it happen. Same sex couples among penquins and swans is normal, it seems. they don't make choices, it's instinct.

Anatomically, John, things go together just right.

Joh, you act like this is my battle. It is not. It is a matter of Human Rights.

it's a shame that your two friends could not accept themselves the way God created them. Society drove them to deny themselves and God. Oh, and you show your lack of understanding when you refer to homosexual desire as a choice.

You are right. You know, I learned that love comes from God. That God is love. To love is godly. So I feel that my love for my partner is Godly.

Trey said...

Right. Homosexuality is physiological; biological. It has been proven. When babies are born with ambiguous genitalia, they can now genetically test the child for their sexual orientation to determine what surgical proceedures, if any, should be undertaken. Gay people genetically test for orientation to their own sex. The argument is scientifically over.

Hence, homosexuality is as "normal" as blonde hair, left-handedness, blindness, etc. It is certainly more normal in any sense than computer games, football, omlettes, or space travel.

But besides the scientific evidence, ask any gay person and they will likely tell you a story about being terrified and shamed when they began becoming aware of their own sexual orientation. It is not something they choose. That's why it is important that we become a more accepting culture.

But what I will never understand is why some people care what other people do in private if it doesn't affect anyone else. No one is trying to "FORCE" the "gay lifestyle" on anyone. Gay people, if I may speak for them, simply want to be treated with respect and equanimity. To be clear, no one will force you to have gay sex if you allow gay people to marry.

You have nothing to fear.

Glad I could clear that up.

If that's not enough f

Anonymous said...

As a medical Dr. I found this blog very intersting. Wearing eyeglasses fixes an abnormality of the eyes. Being obese, I agree, is not normal, but can be treated. But I have to agree with the posters above that indeed, the sexual act, especially of two men, is my no means 'normal' nor medically safe. That is a fact.
Unlike the vaginal wall which is very thick and cannot be penetrated by sperm, the anal wall is very very thin and can be ripped, torn and easily damaged by inserting a penis. Because it can be so easily damaged, germs and disease can easily be transfered from person to person.
Also, it is important to note that exposing oneself to fecal contaminants can be extremely harmful. Anatomically speaking, the rectum is designed to help remove waste and feces from the body, and not to accommodate an erect penis.
Just like the normal life-span of smokers is lower than that of non-smokers, it is a proven statistic that the average life-span of homosexuals is lower than heterosexuals.
Homosexuality is not normal from a medical perspective and there is no scientific evidence that one is born that way. There are theories, but no evidence.

Anonymous said...

Well, well, well even an alleged medical physician(doctor of what,I wonder)just hope to God not a pshyciatrist, along with those of the John & Krsti ilk - Just don't get it! Believe me NO ONE ever chose to be gay! Who would choose such a life voluntarily? Now, when you all start research on the causes and cures of Heterosexuality- THEN we'll talk! All I can say from biblical perspective is that as I understand it we were ALL made in the image of God. God does not make errors. As for any so-called, "lifestyle," of those who are gay, I suppose many gays do have a lifestyle,like running, exercising,gardening,painting,films, church, etc., those are just a few, "lifestyles." As for any alleged shorter life span, that is most certainly correct when one considers the higher than normal suicide rate among gays, ages 13-24. What exactly is it that you want gays to do, so that you feel better and safer about yourselves? Would concentration camps do for you? Maybe the gas ovens would be even better. Send us all of to some deserted island? I doubt there's one anywhere that large! Maybe just start an all-out war with bats, clubs and beatings? Oh, forgot, you've already done that.Just ask Matthew Shepherd's mother. Just what is it that you want done about this menace to YOUR way of life, or your mental health or whatever it is that gays have somehow made you feel so threatened? And do NOT think for even one minute that your opinions are nothing more than that. Your words can kill.

Anonymous said...

Amazing! If you AGREE with the gay lifestyle, then all the gays and lesbians are your friends, but if you disagree, then they all think you HATE them and want to send them off to an island or want to hit 'em over the head with a bat. Grow UP Daniel. I completely agree with John, Kristi, and the Doc, but I don't HATE gays. If you will do your research, you will find that right here in our city there are numerous churches that offer ministry to gays, to help them turn from that lifestyle. These groups do not hate gays, but sincerely attempt to minister to them.
That is my opinion....NOTHING MORE.

Trey said...

John, even if homosexuality is harmful to health, that wouldn't really explain your extreme hostility to it. In other words, you don't call smokers "abnormal" or "queer" or "disgusting" with such vitriolic vehemence.
(So from what source does the neurotic and irrational hostility arise then? It has been scientifically demonstrated that homophobia strongly correlates with latent homosexual desires, see link...
Well that explains a lot)

As for gays having a shorter life-span, it has been well-documented that stress causes health problems. Being gay results in all kinds of psycological stresses that we can't possibly imagine, but we can try. See if you can excercize a little empathy, John, you may feel better. Not to mention the high suicide rate among gay teens as Daniel mentions. Tragic, really. And it is something we need to fix about our society.

And these repeated references to a gay "lifestyle" are annoying. There is no such thing as a gay "lifestyle". There are gay "people" who form gay relationships (unless of course, they try to form straight relationships, which hardly seems fair to the other person. Hey Kristi, how would you like to be married to a guy who was gay but tried to be straight because he listened to the likes of you knuckleheads? That hardly would seem a "Christian" thing to do.) Saying that there is a gay lifestyle is as absurd as saying that there is a straight lifestyle, or even better, a left-handed lifestyle, i.e. left-handed people use their left hand preferentially, gay people form gay relationships, but that doesn't make either a "lifestyle". Refering to gay people as a monolithic social group is offensive, and stupid.

And to the supposed Dr., please get your jollies elsewhere, this is a family blog. Also, if you are a real medical doctor, you are surely aware that your opinions do not jive with those of the medical community at large. As you know, homosexuality is a recognized physical condition, and not one seen as "changable", or even undesirable, by the medical community. Moreover, the psyciatric community stopped recognizing homosexuality as a pathology a long time ago. Interestingly, there has never been a serious debate in the medical community about whether people choose to be gay. The historical debate concerned whether or not homosexuality was a pathological condition. Again, that question was settled decades ago, and is only perpetuated by those who need an excuse to justify their bigotry. You are entitled to your opinions, but don't purport to speak from a mainstream medical perspective. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Good grief Joe. Looks like you have stirred up a bunch of people. I say live and let live and don't cast stones because you may be the next target. God is love. And I truly believe most gay people recognize they are different from what is considered "normal" at an early age. I also think equal rights will come but in baby steps and not in giant leaps.


Joe said...

Lord, where to start. First of all, Trey, I love our straight allies. Especially the intelligent ones. Thanks for being informed.

I've been a little busy over the last two days, and unable to respond until now. My next blog post will explain why.

Dr. Jacobs, I am a veterinarian. We are required to receive so many hours of continuing education each year. I would assume MDs do also, but apparently you do not, or you wouldn't make such outlandish and uninformed statements.

For you and John, statistically, men live shorter lives than women. So are men abnormal? Life expectancy for blacks is shorter than whites. Are blacks abnormal? Should we deny then rights because of that? Don't base our rights on our life span.

Anecdotely, I am much healthier than most straight people my age.

Gays do not transmit disease with more ease. HIV transmission in sub-saharan Africa occurs most commonly by heterosexual transmission.

And while I don't agree with your statement about gays requiring more medical attention and all, wouldn't encouraging gays to live monogamous "lifestyles" by allowing and recognizing their partnerships help reduce that? Oh, you all ignore that because you would rather see gays die than live happy lives. Subjecting gays to attempts at change only increases stress, increases mental illness, and increases closeted risky behavior and early death or suicide. You, by suggesting such, are responsible for the deaths of gays.

Rev. Bill, What I have found is that in the Birmingham area are several churches that offer ministry to gays by affirming their sexuality and celebrating their realtionships. Those are the churches that are following Jesus's teachings. And I will repeat, God is Love, love comes from God...ALL love. My love for my partner is godly.

Anonymous said...

God LOVES murderers. God LOVES those who commit adultery. God LOVES liars. God LOVES EVERYONE. But you cannot read the scripture and make it GAY FRIENDLY. It is NOT. Again, is appears that when someone expresses this anti-gay opinion, they are labeled a homophobe. I am disgusted with the gay "lifestyle", but do not hate gays. I have gay friends. Gay co-workers, and there is even a gay member of my family. I love 'em all but hate their lifestyle which is harmful. The info that the Doc gave above is absolutely correct. Gays do have shorter life-spans and it is directly related to their sexual actions.
Maybe, just maybe, gays are 'stressed' because deep inside they know what they are doing is wrong, but are unwilling to do anything about it.

Anonymous said...

To My dearest Rev. Bill:
Yes, I know of many churches. My church, the Episcopal Church, The Congregationalist, the Christian Church(Disciples of Christ) now under the United Churches of Christ, the Unitarian/Universalists, The Metropolitan Community Christian Church, among others DO NOT exclude gays from their churches nor do they even try to change their sexual orientation. Those churches believe, as I do, that we are ALL made in God's image and are saved by grace through the love of God! Maybe you just need to do YOUR research. Or does your little God have some plan for the very few, like you and your ilk? We all are sinners; but saved by grace, or don't you believe that?!? If not, then why even bother with your kind of so-called, "religion," as then we are ALL doomed. I await that day when I can stand with St. Peter and be the witness against YOU!

Trey said...

John, please entertain my honest curiosity about people of your viewpoint if you don't mind.

If we don't dispute the opinion of the medical and psyciatric communities, the we'll have to agree that homosexuality is a natural and normal variation of human sexuality. Why then do you "hate" what they do? Because it potentially harms their health? (an assertion that I would strongly dispute) Do you also hate rock climbers, obese people, those who don't excercize or eat enough vegetables, people who tailgate or speed, etc?

As for the sciptural argument, if you're going to take that stuff literally, then you'll also have to refrain from eating shrimp, and crabs, and cheeseburgers. You'll also be compelled to stone prostitutes and kill your neighbor if he eats pork. You can't get divorced. You'll also need to pay a fair price for your slaves and treat them fairly.

Polygamy, however, is fine.

Anonymous said...

Daniel: You are absolutely right. We are saved by God's grace - however - the grace comes when we repent and make a decision to try to do the right thing. You can't ask forgiveness of your sins and just keep right on sinning and expect God's grace to cover you. That is not the way it works.

Trey: The scriptures that you mentioned were laws listed in the Old Testament. Jesus replaced the Law with grace.

All of you want your cake (or fudge) and eat it too. It just doesn't work that way.

Joe said...

Rev. bill,
So Jesus replaced the Law with Grace. He kept the 10 commandments because he thought they were pretty important.

Then he went on to talk a lot about the poor, and about divorce. A whole lot about divorce. Not a word about homosexuality. so why don't you right wing Christians go after divorcees and leave us Jesus abiding gays alone? (Disclaimer - I am also divorced).

Trey said...

Okay Bill, then we can safely ignore everything in the old testament?

If I'm not mistaken, there is exactly one passage in the new testament that references homosexuality. It talks MUCH, MUCH more about kindness, charity, and the devaluation of material things. I doubt I'll find you protesting at the local mercedes dealer, or railing against mean people or those who don't give sufficiently to the poor, or forbidding your congregation from getting divorced (new testament).

The scriptural basis for homophobic bigotry is weak at best when compared with its condemnation of social phenomena which you embrace.

You want to pick and choose.

All of this ignores that there is no constitutional provision for making religiously based laws.

Trey said...

Ha! What Joe said.

Joe said...

Yeah Dan, you guessed it. I made a choice to enter a "lifestyle" where I would be shunned, where I would be denied a mortgage, where I could be denied employment, where I could be threatened or killed because of that choice.

NO, the choice I made was to deny the feelings I had experienced since 7 years of age and fall to the pressures of society which were telling me I had to "act" heterosexual and marry a woman.

But I made one more choice a few years later; to accept who I was, to admit to myself and to God that I had been deceitful, to allow my full potential as I had been created to flourish. That is the choice, Dan. Not what one's attraction might be.

There is a difference, Dan, in sexual orientation and sexual behavior. Anyone can behave in a homosexual or heterosexual manner (with varying degrees of success and/or enjoyment) but that has nothing to do with one's underlying sexual attraction.

There are plenty of books out there Dan that you could read to become educated on the subject. sounds like you need it.

Oh, and all of the people who comment on this blog and in other places who favor gay equality are not "gay boys". Thank God there are straight people out there who understand that since they did not make a choice not to be gay, then gay people must not be making a choice to be gay.

Anonymous said...

Denied a mortgage b/c you were gay? Your life has been threatened b/c you are gay? Sorry, Joe, I just don't buy it. Nor do I buy that you knew you liked boys at 7 years old.
God did not create you Gay. There is not a sentence of evidence in God's word that he ever created anyone gay. There is much more than a sentence in God's word that homosexuality is wrong.
You have made a choice. Thank goodness for people like Dominick Brascia who are not afraid to go on the air and condemn this garbage put out by the mainstream media.

Joe said...

"God did not create you gay"

Yes he did!!! It was not a choice. Quit spreading lies.

Yes, at 7 years old. I am not going to give you details of my childhood, but I know what I remember.

Yes I received a threatening anonymous letter sent to my business address after I had a letter published in the Birmingham News about 13 years ago.

Yes a mortgage company refused to consider two incomes together because we were gay (years and years ago).

So Kristi, I don't give a darn what you believe.

There's not a sentence in the Bible that God created anyone left handed or with green eyes either, but they are here.

Yall are so closed minded, uneducated and backward believing that its hard to understand how you function in the world.

Anonymous said...

Joe, that left handed-green eyed justification is hilarious. I don't know why you even bring that up. A guy with (3) college degrees and that is the best you can do? Kristi is right on the money. The Bible has SEVERAL REFERENCES AGAINST the practice of homosexuality and NONE supporting it. Nothing even close.
She is not 'spreading lies'. She is telling the TRUTH. You and your boys on the other hand are trying to spin everything to make what you do OKAY. It's not.
Instead of telling Kristi to stop spreading lies, why don't YOU stop trying to re-write the holy scripture.
Enough already!!!

Anonymous said...

I find the left handed comment interesting. Years ago (1920s) my mother was growing up in a mining camp. She was born left handed. The teachers in the camp beat her when ever she used her left hand. She was forced to use her right hand because they viewed the use of the left hand as the dominate hand as a sign of evil. They even used scripture references to justify their beliefs. It wasn't that she was evil, her brain was just wired the way it was. She was just different. She can now use both hands to write, etc. but she still has mental trauma from the treatment she received and even has to take meds for it.

Now to take this same example and apply it to homosexuality. Growing up I was close to a cousin of mine who lived outside the state. He was always a popular kid and even dated a few girls while in school. He, however, was never heterosexual. An attraction to females never came naturally to him. He was naturally attracted to other males.

Growing up in a small rural town he never felt that he could never even tell someone how he feels due to the repercussions he could face. He now lives outside of his home town and lives as an open homosexual. He family does suspect as much although he is not open to them and some have shunned him. They will readily accept another relative who is a convicted felon before accepting my cousin who has a very successful career and is one of the kindest people I know. I have come to believe that this is just the way his brain is wired. He is who he is and he has, for the most part, come to feel the same way.

Also, in regards to people being threatened because they are gay. I can't speak for Joe but it does happen. I have friends who are gay that have been beat up severely, I know of gays that have been killed and I know of one who was raped. Straight people did these things to them (you don't hear too much of "straight basing"). Having your life in danger and being shunned by those you love seems to be a high price to pay for just a choice.

Anonymous said...

Interesting about your grandmother...James Garfield, our 20th President, elected in 1880, we left handed. I wonder if he was ever 'beaten' for being a lefty.
Then there was Herbert Hoover, who was elected in 1928. Same question.
While it is true that during the 18th century, being left-handed was considered a disability, chances are we had a left handed pres even before Garfield.
But again, you cannot use that pathetic argument and compare it to homosexuals. A penis inside a vagina is OBVIOUSLY NATURAL and has a purpose (child birth). A penis in an asshole is completely unnatural, dangerous (see Docs comments above), and completely disgusting to normal people. For the mainstream media to try to make it look normal is a joke.

Joe said...

There are nicer ways to say things. Normally I would delete your comment, but I won't because I want to respond. Studies show that between 9 and 35 % of straight couples engage in anal sex. Since only about 10 % of people are gay, and not all gay people engage in anal sex, then more straight people are doing it than gay people. Therefore, please start addressing such comments to your straight friends.

I have never read anything in the recent mainstream media about anal sex. Being homosexual is not about sex, its about attraction. People of all orientations choose what kind of sex to have. People do not choose their orientation or who they are attracted to.

Doc has not kept up with medical facts. He should get some continuing education. Vaginas can be torn quite easily during sex. Did you not read the Godfather? (Not the movie, the book). Ok I know that was fiction, of sorts, but it makes a point.

John, the bible does not have several references against the "practice" of homosexuality. It has references about particular people performing particular acts, for instance priests using their power to have their way with "temple prostitutes. Why don't you read and study the Bible instead of just talking about it. The Bible nowhere condemns loving and committed relationships between two women. Or two men.

Oh Brother, thanks for your input. Some people cannot believe that there are straight people who realize that being gay is not a choice. Again, it all comes down to education, and not necessarily the kind one gets in school.

Anonymous said...

Let me clarify my statements a bit.

I was not trying to say that during the 1800s-early 1900s everyone that was a lefty was discriminated against or beaten. The area in which my mother grew up and spent the first 15 years of her life was a very rural and isolated settlement. These people had beliefs that would run contrary to much of America at the time. In her town they viewed someone that was left handed as being touched by the devil. Their solution was to force her to change what came natural to her. They did this through beatings.

Now to relate that to my cousin. From a young age his attraction was to males. He was raised in a normal household, grew up in church, played baseball through school. For all purposes he was your normal teenage kid. But he was never natural attracted to females, just to males. I never mentioned sex. Not once. I can look at a woman and find her attractive without my only thoughts being about "tapping that". I also know a couple of homosexuals that find anal sex discusing and they do not practice it. They are still gay however.

I was trying to suggest that maybe his brain is just wired a certain way.

Also, how come every time some one uses an example of unnatural gay sex they always use male-on-male as an example. Do you not view female-on-female the same? All the disgust seems reserved for male homosexuals.

Anonymous said...

OMG...."homoSEXuality is not about sex". Joe do you honestly believe what you write? I know you want to convince yourself that everything is okay, but come on.
And I am not a doctor, but I have studied and learned that the wall of the vagina is several levels thick. The ass is very very thin and MUCH MORE LIKELY to be torn. Ask ANY DOCTOR Joe and find ONE that will say "sure, putting an erect penis in the rectum is fine - not dangerous." You will not find one UNLESS HE HIMSELF is gay. Look it up in the medical journals. It is completely abnormal.

The bible DOES INDEED condemn sexual relations between people of the same sex, but nobody can tell you, because you want to go running back to that Gay pastor who has spun the hell out of the scripture. You really need to do some soul searching.

I am NOT for threatening anyone or doing harm to someone b/c they are gay. But it is NOT a normal lifestyle and it is DEFINATLEY a choice.

Joe said...

Ok Dan that does it. Not only will I delete comments that use profanity, after this comment I will delete any comment that includes the suggestion that homosexuality is a choice. Especially ones when people scream it by typing all caps.

So no longer will such comments remain, and I will post a warning on the header of the blog.

Anonymous said...

Of course you won't Joe. You are a typical liberal Democrat. What you are doing is exactly what the liberal media does. They only publish those ideas in which they AGREE. The TRUTH is oblivious to them. So why will people come here to read your blog? Why will anyone read your article in the Tribune? You are only going to allow those comments and ideas in which you AGREE. You are only going to show one view point.
If you cannot accept the fact that homosexuality is a choice, then you really have no business even commenting on it.
And profanity? Who used profanity?
God BLESS you son.

Anonymous said...

holy cow...ill not go on about homosexuality.. trey says it all better than i can so ill just say i agree with him.
what i dont understand is how any of it bothers anyone alse. anyone ever been attacked by a gay person? you are bothered by people homosexual or not that are different than you? them just being on the planet bothers you? and the word 'hate' is sure tossed around a lot. people who 'hate' have missed the point i believe in their religion or spiritusl life whatever it may be seems like.
there will never world peace until we love our neighbors...are at peace with them what ever their sexual orientation ..lifetyle or other differences might be. no reason to concern ourselves with other countries if we cant love our neighbor. i dont understand why people cant see that.
how can one be 'bothered' by anything at all that doesnt harm them or that they dont have to participate in.?
its about human rights and we shouldnt even have to call it rights. we should just love our neighbor.
good fortune

Anonymous said...

The PROBLEM L.B. is that when gays want to be married, want marital benefits, want insurance (Yes, insurance) then it affects ME. If you want to be gay in your own bedroom, then knock yourself out. If someone want to smoke weed in their own house, fine that doesn't affect me. But when you start wanting benefits just like a NORMAL married couple, and insurance for EVERYONE regardless of sexual orientation, THAT is when I have a problem with it. There are SO MANY NEGATIVE RAMIFICATIONS from the naturalization of the homosexual lifestyle it is scary.
You wanna be gay, be gay. But don't run an article in Newsweek and expect me to just accept it as normal. NOT gonna happen.

Anonymous said...

i really dont think your insurance costs would increase much if any.
what i would really like to see is affordable health care for everyone....everyone. up until about 2 years ago my wife didnt have for around 15 years.
enough about that ....except find yourself with a catastophic medical problem where you are unable to work and see how long your insurance lasts. off the topic i know but i have a thing about insurance...all insurance.
kristi im talking about people...mankind....if it has to cost me to help feed and house poor people then it just does....there is no difference.
and we are speaking of rights for married...if they could be...couples....not over nighters or shackups.
what we have in common is more important than our differences.
in case you wonder a girl..and have been for a long time. happily.
comeon over kristi and look at some art and drink some coffee.

Anonymous said...

I'm for healthcare coverage for everyone who WORKS. Just providing governmental healthcare to EVERYONE is complete insanity. Kind of like the well-fare system. Many who are on it don't NEED it. It screws up everything.
So, if we have governmental health coverage for EVERYONE, healthcare in and of itself will go through the roof. You think the economy is bad now. Our government is digging it's own grave. Now we have a president who thinks that the government can fix everything. Gays want to be married. God has been taken out of school. Madonna is on tour again. We are so screwed.

Anonymous said...

PALEEZE!God is in school every time a test is given.But, I certainly don't any one individual telling me what to pray and when to pray. "...go inside alone and pray." If we were to ban universal health care to only those, "who work," what would become of the disabeled? The,"working poor," whose employer does not have medical coverage because(s)he has less than 10 employees? The homeless? Children in Foster Care" and on and on and on...? AND how did this issue become a part of this particular discussion blog? I should no longer be, BUT I AM still just miserably amazed that some of you live in a totally different world than all the rest of us. Maybe you just need to, "get that log out of your own eye and judge not, lest you be judged," by this holier than thou attitude you wrap yourselves in. Are gay folks trying to just survive, your only obsession? Why not just let God do all the judging and then you don't even need to worry yourselves? Pray for us and all sinners, if you want, but stop all this, "hate and bigotry," crap.If you mean well and your goal is to, "save us," just let it be! Save yourselves and let God be God for all the rest of us. Oh, and I forgot, yeah Madonna is on tour, I went and if you had too, "you can't always get what ya want; but if you try sometime' you might just find - you get what ya need." NOT a Madonna number. But who cares, since I'm sure all rock musicians must be hell bound, too.

Anonymous said...

...some of you may remember, "hell bound train." I have one judgement to make: your words of senseless, idiotic, ignorant and self-rightousness will NOT get you to that Santa Claus heaven of your's. You probably think that heaven is in some galaxy- - far far away!