But regarding an actual issue, when speaking of gay relationships, Sarah Palin said, "I am tolerant."
That is supposed to make us feel better.
But was tolerance enough in 1947 when white bus drivers in North Carolina tolerated black riders as long as they sat at the back of the bus?
No, because tolerance ended when Bayard Rustin and other Reconciliation activists upset things by having blacks sit up front and whites sit in the back.
And when tolerance ended, over a two week period twelve riders had been charged with disorderly conduct or other "crimes", and resulted in Rustin and others being sentenced to the North Carolina chain gang.
Silver lining: Rustin was released after serving 22 days on good behavior. He travelled to Chapel Hill and spoke at the University of North Carolina and got the ball rolling. Within two years North Carolina had abolished chain gangs. Bayard Rustin had proven that nonviolence could topple a violent system.
Anyway, back to the debate.
Palin: "But I also want to clarify, if there’s any kind of suggestion at all from my answer that I would be anything but tolerant of adults in America choosing their partners, choosing relationships that they deem best for themselves, you know, I am tolerant... But in that tolerance also, no one would ever propose, not in a McCain-Palin administration, to do anything to prohibit, say, visitations in a hospital or contracts being signed, negotiated between parties."
Anybody that believes this stand on your head (a favorite expression of my mother). And let's see how long until the fundies skewer her over this remark.
Joe Biden, on the other hand recognized constitutional protections that gays should have:
"Absolutely. . . . Look, in an Obama-Biden administration, there will be absolutely no distinction from a constitutional standpoint or a legal standpoint between a same-sex and a heterosexual couple...The fact of the matter is that under the Constitution we should be granted - same-sex couples should be able to have visitation rights in the hospitals, joint ownership of property, life insurance policies, et cetera. That’s only fair. It’s what the Constitution calls for. And so we do support it."
Poll results:
CBS: Biden won 46% Palin won 21%
CNN Biden 51% Palin 36%
A reader had these concerns about the debate and about Governor Palin.
1. Why was Sarah Palin's microphone on before and after the debate so that we could her her comments to Joe Biden and to the moderator but Joe Biden's microphone was not on?
2. When is someone going to make an issue of Todd Palin's job with BP?
3. When is someone going to make an issue of her lack of political science, law, or government education? (Like lacking the ability to name a supreme court case?)
4. During the debate she referred to Joe Biden as Joe while he addressed her as Governor Palin. (He said that would be OK).
5. If he would of been as aggressive as she was...he would have been attacked for attacking, being rude to a woman. (The bar was set so low for her that it didn't matter what she did. Biden, however was held to different standards, and surpassed expectations, according to polls.)
6. At the beginning of the debate there was a shot from the back of the stage that clearly showed her flipping through notes on her podium. (Needs no explanation. I used to cram right before big tests, too, when I didn't have a thorough understanding of the material.)
After considering the debate I don't think it will make a difference one way or the other for either candidate. The race is between Obama and McCain, and while Obama's policies were clearly put forth by Biden, and nothing but generalizations and folksy talk ("Yer darn right") from Palin, voters feel that Obama can handle the economy, as McCain drops out of the race in Michigan. Maybe I should say, "suspends his campaign."
18 comments:
i am an obama for alabama type of guy. no change there. and i wont argue any points that you make joe.
but i have to say that sarah baby has been to school in the last two weeks..not that two weeks of school qualifies you for anything.
...and she is ..pretty....
nevertheless obama for alabama and alabama for obama.
Drudge Poll - 70% Sarah, 28% Biden, 2% undecided. Why don't you include this poll of over 425,000 people, Joe?
Because the Drudge poll is a straw poll of people who visit his partisan site. The other polls are independent scientific polls.
"A man having sex with another man is disgusting"
How about two hot chicks?
Joe is right about the Drudge poll. The site's traffic is diverse but it's visitors weight heavily on the conservative site. I would be surprised if his poll went any other way.
That being said I thought that both candidates did as they were expected by their supporters. Palin actually did better than I though but every time she was stumped she went back the the "awe shucks, my record in Alaska" routine. Biden for the most part avoided looking like a jerk and held his tongue for the most part but his audible sighs and smirk didn't help.
As for the facts they both flubbed several. Factcheck.org has a good (but short) analysis of the candidates statements.
Also, that CBS poll showed that while more uncommitted voters thought Biden won, most (55%) ended up with an improved opinion of Palin. To me this means that they can still be swayed by the next few debates.
Great post Shae. Keep up the good work. All Biden did was lie!!! OMG. It was unbelievable. But yet, why are we surprised? Dems do nothing but spin everything. You cannot trust ANY mainstream media poll, because they are not scientific. They are all slanted to the left. This election is going to go at least 10 percentage points (if not more) to McCain.
Biden incorrectly said “John McCain voted the exact same way” as Obama on a controversial troop funding bill. The two were actually on opposite sides.
Biden wrongly claimed that McCain “voted the exact same way” as Obama on the budget bill that contained an increase on singles making as little as $42,000 a year. McCain voted against it.
Biden wrongly claimed that McCain had said "he wouldn't even sit down" with the government of Spain. Actually, McCain didn't reject a meeting, but simply refused to commit himself one way or the other during an interview.
An Obama-Biden TV ad once again twists McCain's position on Social Security.
It claims he backed a "plan to risk your Social Security in the stock market." In fact, the plan McCain endorsed in 2005 would have been voluntary, and workers could have put only one-third of their Social Security pension fund taxes into private accounts.
The new ad also asks viewers to imagine "your future retirement benefits" invested in Lehman Brothers, AIG or Merrill Lynch, three firms that collapsed recently. In fact, the accounts in the plan McCain backed could not have invested in any of those stocks directly. They would have been allowed to invest only in a few government-run stock or bond funds with risks spread over many companies and industries..
Since Anon. is quoting directly from the summary from Factcheck.org I will list the stuff he omitted out of fairness. The info listed in both this post and the one from Anon. above does not include the summary information as is just goes on forever.
He goes:
Palin mistakenly claimed that troop levels in Iraq had returned to “pre-surge” levels. Levels are gradually coming down but current plans would have levels higher than pre-surge numbers through early next year, at least.
Palin repeated a false claim that Obama once voted in favor of higher taxes on “families” making as little as $42,000 a year. He did not. The budget bill in question called for an increase only on singles making that amount, but a family of four would not have been affected unless they made at least $90,000 a year.
Palin claimed McCain’s health care plan would be “budget neutral,” costing the government nothing. Independent budget experts estimate McCain's plan would cost tens of billions each year, though details are too fuzzy to allow for exact estimates.
Palin wrongly claimed that “millions of small businesses” would see tax increases under Obama’s tax proposals. At most, several hundred thousand business owners would see increases.
Palin said "Alaska is building a $40 billion pipeline..." Not true. construction won't start for 6 years and in August she said it was not a done deal.
Palin said US troop levels in Iraq are below the surge level. Not true.
Palin claimed she has taken on the oil industry. Suing the Dept of Interior to keep polar bears unprotected is siding WITH the oil industry.
I could go on.
Sorry I meant to say that neither mine of Anon.'s post includes the analysis info rather than the summary info.
Also, you can pick and choose info if you want but it makes you look like a hack be you liberal or conservative. If your preferred candidate makes a mistake or lies, pointing out the other candidates mistakes or lies while ignoring your own candidate's faults doesn't mean that they aren't there.
No matter what anyone says I'm stiil voting Obama-Biden.
Don't forget Bidens comments about Obama's qualifications and experience. Biden is also a good friend of John McCain. Vote McCain/Palin in 08. All the way. They will carry Alabama and hopefully the nation. And while I do believe that gay couples should have contracts, survivor laws, visitation, medical rights etc. I don't think it should be called marriage. Perhaps partnership would be less offensive to some.
"..No matter what anyone says I'm stiil voting Obama-Biden.
See, THAT is the kind of ignorance that is ruining this country. It's that attitude of "i don't care what you tell me....I don't care what the TRUTH is, I am going to do whatever I want to do, even if I DON'T have a CLUE about what is REALLY going on."
Obama......NO EXPERIENCE AS A LEADER.
A vote for Obama is a vote for complete lack of experience to run the greatest country in the world.
DON'T be STUPID.
Shae said... "Be tolerant of people, yes, but don't give visitation rights, joint ownership rights, life insurance policies, or anything else to queers! This country is built on solid Christian principles...Let's get back to the basics!"
Give me a freakin break... Do you mean principles like slavery, child labor and subjugation of women? Or perhaps all men are created equal as long as they are white male landowners?
How about real Christian principles like loving your neighbor, whomever he may be, and treating others as you would want to be treated yourself. Those are the basics we should get back to. Basic human rights. But I guess "that don't fly down here".
Shae reminds me of a song we learned in Bible School. Now how did it go? Let me see...
"Jesus loves the little children. All the children of the world. If your BAPTIST and your WHITE, you are precious in his sight..."
No Tompit, you are wrong. I DO believe we should love everyone, no matter who they are. But we cannot just ACCEPT what everyone believes just because for them, they think it is right. All individuals deserve rights, but we also need to follow the Biblical teachings that this family was founded on.
Okay Shae... Are you contradicting yourself, or did your opinion change over the weekend from "Be tolerant of people, yes, but don't give visitation rights, joint ownership rights, life insurance policies, or anything else to queers!" to "All individuals deserve rights..."?
From the shrill tone of your original post I thought you meant to loathe everyone equally. Sorry...
Tom, Shae speaks out of both sides of his mouth sort of like Sarah Palin does.
Uh, Joe, I'm not a HE I'm a SHE...but I understand that someone like would have trouble telling the difference.
Well excuse me. I guess we all make mistakes. sort of like leaving a word out of a comment?
But I see there was no denial about the charge that you speak out of both sides of your mouth.
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